Ep 5: Letting Go of Perfectionism to Build Authentic Relationships with Connection Consultant, Richard Lee-Thai

Written By Baily Hancock

“Being able to love, accept, and connect with myself opened up the door to have deeper relationships because I could show up more authentically, be more vulnerable, more empathetic, and more present to what other people were going through.” - Richard Lee-Thai

About this Episode

In this episode of Seeking the Overlap, Baily sits down with Richard Lee-Thai, a Connection Consultant, Author, and TEDx speaker, to explore how letting go of perfectionism can lead to more authentic relationships. Richard shares his personal journey of overcoming people-pleasing tendencies and social anxiety, offering strategies for introverts to build confidence in social situations. Together, Baily and Richard discuss the importance of self-connection as the foundation for meaningful relationships, and how embracing vulnerability can transform both personal and professional interactions. Tune in for actionable tips on breaking free from perfectionism and cultivating real, supportive connections.

Topics Covered

  • Building confidence and social fitness for introverts

  • Using the fear ladder to step outside comfort zones

  • Leveraging personal interests and asking for help in networking

  • Self-connection and self-acceptance as networking foundations

  • Embracing authenticity, self-compassion, and imperfection

Resources Mentioned

About the Guest

Richard Lee-Thai is a TEDx Speaker, Connection Consultant, and co-author of “Become Your Superself: Connect with Yourself to Connect with Others.” His TEDx talk: "How to Find Excuses to Connect” outlines how people can make meaningful connections easier. His ultimate vision is to create a world without loneliness. His motto is: "You never know how any connection can transform your life." Connections can happen anywhere and anytime, so he encourages you to find that excuse to connect!

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Seeking the Overlap

02:14 Three Truths, No Lies: Getting to Know Richard

05:02 TEDx Talk: How to Find Excuses to Connect

05:19 Building Confidence for Introverts

05:58 The Fear Ladder: A Tool for Social Growth

08:17 Social Fitness and the Importance of Connection

09:56 Leveraging Interests to Grow Your Network

11:36 The Power of Asking for Help

18:06 Self-Connection: The Foundation of Networking

18:23 The Journey to Self-Acceptance

25:01 The Importance of Authenticity in Professional Settings

27:33 The Role of Self-Compassion

31:56 The Beauty of Imperfection

34:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Interview Transcript

Welcome and Introduction

Baily Hancock: Richard, welcome to seeking the overlap.

Richard Lee-Thai: Thank you for having me.

Baily Hancock: I am so excited to have you here.

We recently met in Cove's connection crew event where I, for the first time ever felt like, Oh my God, here are my people. They call it like the Olympics for super connectors, something like that. And it really felt that way. It was like a hundred plus people in there who all Either do some kind of connection consulting or strategy work or are super connectors or involved in the connection world in some capacity.

And I made so many new connections in the chat. So many people connected on LinkedIn and we started conversations. I scanned your LinkedIn profile and was immediately like he needs to be on the show. So here we are. Thank you for coming on and thank you to Hanson for putting on that amazing event and introducing me to so many amazing super connectors.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, thank you for having me and making an excuse to connect.

Baily Hancock: Absolutely.

Three Truths, No Lies: Getting to Know Richard

Baily Hancock: I'm super excited to talk to you about your Ted talk and your book and your work as a connection consultant. But first let's get to know each other a little bit better by playing our segment, three truths, no lies.

Question one: what is your favorite way to unwind and relax?

Richard Lee-Thai: I like to read. Sometimes I like reading, and it's an intense activity because I'm trying to learn something, but I also like to read before bed as well. I've been trying to get off this habit of going on my phone before bed because I found that really affects my sleep. Me staying up later, waking up kind of groggy and exhausted, and I find reading a book is a good way for me to unwind, and I like reading personal development, business development books.

Baily Hancock: I'm totally with you that end of the day scroll. It doesn't help at all. Turns out with the relaxing and the falling into sleep.

Next question. Are you an inbox zero or an inbox 10, 000 plus person? A

Richard Lee-Thai: 12 right now,

Baily Hancock: my own heart.

Richard Lee-Thai: so I'm trying to get to inbox zero, but the past few days have been quite busy, so I still need to circle back to my emails, but yeah, I like being responsive to emails, and I've been trying to be more mindful of what do I actually even allow into my inbox in the first place?

So like unsubscribing from newsletters or spam or whatever that doesn't serve me, because it can clutter your mind and feeling like that you need to constantly be on or responsive to people.

Baily Hancock: That's an interesting response because I find that usually inbox zero people, which doesn't always mean we have no emails in our inbox, it's a lifestyle more than a reality, but I find that we tend to be those hyper responsive, people pleaser, overachiever types, but I like your reframe that you're intentional about what even gets to come in the first place.

And I do think inbox zero people end up with inbox 10, 000 plus people.

My husband is, I don't know what his count is at it makes me want to throw up every time I see his phone.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, it gives me anxiety too when I see people with so many unanswered emails.

Baily Hancock: right? What are you doing? Just deal with it. Just burn it to the ground and start over.

Question three. What is something you're currently looking forward to?

Richard Lee-Thai: I feel like this summer for me has been characterized by a lot of growing up. when you're younger as a kid, it feels wow, I have all these dreams, but I don't necessarily have the capacity or financial means to actually enact it. now with my stage of life, I'm like, okay, I have these dreams and I can go do it. I can go pursue these things. So I feel like there's just been so much momentum gathering for me over the summer and like few months from now, a year from now, like I'm going to be like skyrocketing. So not a specific thing, but it's just more general feeling of momentum and pursuing my dreams in my life.

Baily Hancock: I love that for you. I can't wait to see that momentum play out in the coming months and years. And I'll certainly be cheering you on. Thank you for playing three truth, no lies. I'm excited to have gotten to know you a little bit better.

TEDx Talk: How to Find Excuses to Connect

Baily Hancock: I want to start by talking about your TEDx talk, which was called how to find excuses to connect. In that talk, you encourage people to seize everyday opportunities for meaningful connection, but let's talk about those shy or introverted people among us. What are some small steps that they can take to start building confidence in those moments?

Richard Lee-Thai: First of all, I am an introvert and I was shy. And I think the big challenge is to normalize for people that there's nothing wrong with you. This is a larger systemic issue where there's no classes on how do you make friends. If you're

Baily Hancock: There really should be though.

Richard Lee-Thai: exactly, but if you're not taught something or you're not role modeled it, how are you supposed to know? So release some of that shame or pressure, because what would go through my mind is I'm a loser. Other people know how to make friends, but I don't, so something's wrong with me. When in reality, I think we're all sometimes socially awkward, and can struggle with our social skills.

The Fear Ladder: A Tool for Social Growth

Richard Lee-Thai: One of my favourite tools that I've picked up along the way is from my therapist, actually. She calls it a fear ladder, which I also mentioned in my TEDx talk. Imagine there's a ladder with 10 different rungs, and it corresponds to a scale of 1 to 10. If I tell an introvert or someone that's very shy, go talk to a stranger and just start a conversation with them, that might be a 9 or 10 on their fear ladder, especially if you haven't done it before. so that's too big of a leap to ask someone to take. You likely just won't take action because your mind will evaluate that's too big of a risk. Instead, if I ask, what's your 1 out of 10 on your fear ladder? What's the lowest rung? Something that's still slightly outside of your comfort zone, but still feels doable. And that way you can practice that. It might be asking the barista, how's your day? Because people that work in retail and food servers are obligated to be friendly to you and ask you about how's your day. And you can start a little conversation with them.

also look like reaching out to a friend you already have and making plans because it's low stakes. You already have rapport built up, you're not likely to be rejected. The point is you're exercising your social muscles, strengthening it over time. This is what's used in exposure therapy too for people that have phobias. Let's say you have a phobia of spiders. So you'd have this gradual progression of just look at a spider from like a textbook, like on a piece of paper. Now maybe let's step into a room 10 feet away, the spiders in this box and you step five feet away. So you have this gradual progression that actually you realize, I can handle this. You're training your body and your mind that you got this. So I like that fear ladder tool, cause it's applicable for everyone. It meets you exactly where you're at because your ladder will be different than anyone else, but it gives you an actionable step to take.

Baily Hancock: I call it building your bravery muscle, just start low and slow. I love the idea of talking to somebody in the service industry because it is part of their job to be nice to you. That's okay. Use the 1. 5 pound weight, you don't need to use a 25 pound dumbbell right off the bat, right? That's very wise.

There's this misconception around what counts as connection or as networking. People immediately jumped to the idea of attending a networking event where there's a hundred people in the room and that's what they have to do to network. But what you just said about just saying hello to a barista or even reaching out to somebody, you already know that counts.

It absolutely counts just as much as making a new connection in a room full of strangers.

Richard Lee-Thai: definitely.

Social Fitness and the Importance of Connection

Richard Lee-Thai: There's this term called social fitness, and it's from a book called Good Life by Robert Waldinger. It talks about this study that's being done at Harvard called the Harvard Study of Adult Development. So they've been tracking these people from, 85 plus years, and they're trying to uncover like what makes for a good life, what makes people happy. And what they uncovered through this study is it can be boiled down to having strong relationships, having strong connections as a predictor to having a healthier and happier life. And they use this term social fitness in here, which I like because think about physical fitness. For physical fitness, you could go biking, you could go swimming, you could do yoga, you could do marathons. And you can have preferences for what works for you in terms of your physical fitness activities. But it doesn't matter because all of it's still helping you to be physically healthy. The same is true in the social world, in social fitness.

I know for me as an introvert, I would prefer one on one conversations with people, or being in a small group, like being part of a book club, or meditation, that sort of thing. I don't crave being in a loud, crowded, sweaty place. Or as you said, a networking event of a hundred people, I can do it. But it's just, back to what are your preferences when it comes to social connection and there will always be other people that share that type of interest with you. And find your people, find your community there and just know that those activities will keep you socially fit and socially healthy as well.

Baily Hancock: That's a very good point. Obviously

Richard Lee-Thai: Mhm.

Baily Hancock: with an existing friend is an excellent way to build that social muscle, if you will. But for people that are like, yes, but I also need to meet new people.

Leveraging Interests to Grow Your Network

Baily Hancock: It sounds like you recommend following your interests to find people that share it overlapping interest with you. What are some of the places or practices that introverted people can leverage to grow their network? So the top of the funnel for their new humans and their personal community.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, there's lots of ways to go about it. So I'll just share a few ideas. One is meetup. com. If you've heard of

Baily Hancock: Is Meetup still going?

Richard Lee-Thai: it is, it's

Baily Hancock: That's amazing. That's been around forever.

Richard Lee-Thai: can find very niche things, I don't know, like mubs 40 to 55 that love to walk dogs. So

Baily Hancock: That describes most of my friends.

Richard Lee-Thai: So it's whatever your interests here are as obscure as niches that might be, there might be a group out there for that. And to search that up and just recognize that people are showing up with the same intention. They want to meet up with other people. So you don't have to feel as pressure of is it going to be weird that I'm going by myself? I don't know anyone there. That's probably the case for the other folks there too and they're going to be warm and welcoming. So that's a place I would start.

I would also say too, leverage your existing network or connections. Have you told them? Have you asked them that, hey, I want to connect with other people that love Harry Potter or people that really love to cook or people that love to hike? If you can identify those existing friends or family members in your network and you ask them that, chances are they might know other people too. So yes, you could go into a cold event and try to meet new people. But you have a stronger support system or connection network than you might think. Maybe you just haven't asked.

The Power of Asking for Help

Richard Lee-Thai: There's a great book called Who Not How by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. And the premise of the book is oftentimes as entrepreneurs or just as humans, we ask ourselves how questions. I'm a big believer of you have a stronger support system or There's a great book called Who Not How by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy.

And the premise of the book is oftentimes as entrepreneurs or just as humans, we ask ourselves how questions. For instance, how can I start a podcast or, how do I set myself up for taxes for GST like that, that, that sort of stuff too. what that line of questioning does it, it takes you to what I call the Google rabbit hole 'cause you could spend hours and hours reading articles, watching YouTube tutorials to try to answer that question. by the end of it, at least in my case, I feel exhausted because. I hear contradictory answers, I have even more questions, and I'm just very confused. Instead of asking that how question, the authors in this book advocate for asking who questions.

As in, who would know this already, or who could help me with this? And I directly applied this, because I had started a podcast a while back too. And I didn't know how to do that so I reached out to some existing podcasting friends and I asked them like, Hey, would you have an hour to chat? I have questions around how do you edit, how do you record, how do you publish your episodes? I'd love, could you be able to help me? And all of them said, yes. I talked to five people for an hour each, and that five hours was so much better spent with them than if I were to use those five hours on Google. not only did I get more nuanced answers, I got social connection out of it too. I published my first episode, I circled back to them like, hey, you so much again for your help. I now have my first episode out, I wouldn't have been able to do this without you. So thanks again. So if you want to make new friends, that might be your how question. Like, how do I make new friends? Think of who could help you with this or who wouldn't know this already. And that might spark different answers.

Baily Hancock: 100%. You're so speaking my language. There's two concepts that I talk about that you hit on here, which is people are portals. I believe people are portals to information, inspiration, introductions, and opportunities. And those first three I's, info, inspo, and intros, I talk a lot about the three I's that you'll get when you talk to somebody.

And when you open yourself up to being supported by the people in your community. And you just demonstrated that beautifully. Yes. You could go do this alone in isolation, and oftentimes you are going down rabbit holes that aren't actually the right rabbit holes for you at all, but the people who know you, and are invested in your success in life and your happiness are much more likely to provide you with aligned information, inspiration, and introduction. So plus one to all of what you just said there, I think that is very wise.

What I'm hearing from you is make this as easy as humanly possible, because connection can feel hard and complicated and time consuming, but everything you've just offered feels extremely doable.

Richard Lee-Thai: One point I will make too, though which was a barrier that I had to work through was this idea of asking for help because it feels selfish

Baily Hancock: Yes.

Richard Lee-Thai: I'm, being a burden or bothering this other person and as a people pleaser, I don't want to do that

Baily Hancock: God forbid we do that.

Richard Lee-Thai: I've learned to work through by people pleasing tendencies, but something that was very insightful for me was this idea that when I help someone, I feel good about it. There's a helper's high when you're volunteering or you were there for a friend. And so when I ask someone for help, I'm giving them the opportunity to be in that position of service. Thanks. I'm giving them the opportunity to be a helper and feel that helper's high. So in fact what feels like a selfish act is actually still selfless because I'm giving them that opportunity to help and they might, feel very honored that, oh, you, you thought of me to help you with this, and I want to support you. And then when you're successful, they're part of the celebration that they know they invested into you and what was one of your background supporters. So that was something That helped change my perspective of asking for help is a selfless act too.

Baily Hancock: Absolutely. And it is something I hear from my clients and my community all the time is I don't want to be a burden, I don't want to be a social leech, I don't want people to think I'm using them. And that's exactly right, what you said. I've never heard the helpers high, but that is so true. And I always say, help people help you, right?

So if you are going to go to somebody and ask for, let's say one of these three eyes, make sure that you're making it super easy for them to help you in the best, most strategic way possible so that nobody's wasting anybody's time. Because there's such a difference in, in approaching somebody saying, Hey, I'm thinking about starting a podcast tell me everything, versus I'm thinking about starting a podcast and I'm feeling a little unsure about what tools or systems and platforms might be beneficial for me. Do you have any recommendations? And then of course, that doesn't stop you from asking follow up questions and additional questions, and then them offering up other ideas that you just don't even know to ask about.

But, if you can make it so that it is super easy for somebody to offer up one of those three I's in a way that's going to be most beneficial for you and the best use of their time, it makes everybody feel great.

Richard Lee-Thai: I love how you framed that make it easy for them to say yes.

Baily Hancock: And you see it too often. People will say, Hey, can we hop on a call and not have an objective? And I think that is one of my don'ts as it relates to connection, especially with people that you don't have a relationship with yet. I think clarity of intention is really important when you are connecting with somebody, even if it's just to get to know them.

People like clarity and they like to have an understanding of what the goal is in a connection opportunity. So yeah, that's just one tip I would add to that as well.

Richard Lee-Thai: agree. Yeah. The message of Oh, can we just grab coffee? Can I pick your brain?

Baily Hancock: Oh no. Stop. Don't ever say that sentence again. Anybody that's listening to this, stop picking people's brains. It sounds so one sided. Yeah.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, it's or yeah, it's a guise of a conversation, but really it turns into a free coaching or like consulting session.

Baily Hancock: Yeah. And especially if somebody does that line of work for a living, it feels really predatory and not good. And there is such a difference between approaching somebody with appreciation and gratitude going into it and respecting their time, making it easy for them to say yes to getting on a call with you and then letting them be generous with their information and their time and gratitude.

All of their wisdom versus saying, I want to pick your brain. It's the same ask, but framed in a different way. And you're much more likely to get a positive response if you go with the former.

Self-Connection: The Foundation of Networking

Baily Hancock: So let's get into your book, become your super self. It focuses a lot on self connection as the starting point for building a world class network, as you call it. How do you feel like understanding and accepting yourself changes the way that you actually can approach with others, especially in professional settings?

Richard Lee-Thai: the connecting with self part was very pivotal in my journey, because prior to that, When I would go into conversations, for example, I'd have this thought of does this person really like me? I'm constantly having this inner dialogue or self monitoring of, am I appearing weird? Are they judging me? Am I going to be rejected? And eventually I realized first of all, that doesn't lead to good connection, because I'm not really present for the other person. I'm just in my own head. And so I learned the key, or the transformation that needed to occur, was for me to connect with myself first. Do I like who I am? Do I accept myself? that's a easier than said done journey

Baily Hancock: just the light questions,

Richard Lee-Thai: There are lots of years of self work and therapy and reflection to come to that point of like I am enough I love myself for who I am and that allowed me to show up authentically I didn't need to pretend or adjust to think like I need to be this way So people like me more I can just be my weird quirky You authentic, imperfect self.

And that's okay. that will attract the type of people that resonate with that. And that will filter out the people that don't. And a large part of this inner connection too, I realized is not everyone needs to like me.

Baily Hancock: yeah.

Richard Lee-Thai: I used to think that. As a people pleaser, I'd be like, monitoring the people's emotions around me. I'm like, I want to make sure everyone's doing okay and things are harmonious and people are getting along. But that comes at my own expense of sacrificing so much of my own needs and attention. And I came to realize, anyway, even if I did do that give all my time and energy to other people, there's just still some people that won't get along, and they don't like me, and that's okay. What changed things for me is because in the past, I used to be so fearful of gonna, will I be rejected by this person? And there was a shift to I can reject this person. It's not just do they like me? it's, do I like them? Because if I don't like them, why am I spending so much time and energy trying to please them and have them as part of my connections? So that was a significant shift for me, too.

I don't need to get along with everyone, I don't need to like everyone. And quality quantity really matters. I'd rather have a close circle of friends and family members that really know me and have my back than, hundreds of people that are lukewarm, let's say, when it comes to that connection. So being able to love myself, accept myself, connect with myself, open up these doors to actually Have deeper relationships because I could show up more authentically, I could be more vulnerable It could be more empathetic and present to what other people were going through.

Baily Hancock: Was there a moment or a series of events or a turning point where you started to pause and make that shift from perhaps seeking external validation to being confident and comfortable with who you were independent of whether people liked you?

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, I think there's a gradual Process, but what really kick started it or gave me this first realization.

The Impact of Brene Brown's Work

Richard Lee-Thai: I'm a big fan of brene brown.

Baily Hancock: Our queen.

Richard Lee-Thai: But I remember picking up her book daring greatly just it. Every page is wow has finally given me the language to describe the thought patterns, the behavioral patterns that I've been going through my whole life. I remember, for example, reading a section about perfectionism and how she described, it's this self destructive belief system that you feel like you need to be perfect, and it's just a mask or a barrier to hide shame. That if you're perfect enough, that you won't be judged. You won't feel like you're unworthy. And so when I read that, I'm like, damn, Brene, like you're,

Baily Hancock: Why'd you have to call me out like that?

Richard Lee-Thai: but that really struck me. I'm like, Oh, okay. It makes sense now. Cause I did have that, from my upbringing, the sense, like I had very high standards or expectations that I needed to meet to feel validation and from my parents and so on. And I realized, Oh, okay. That's impossible, first of all, like to be perfect. I'm, I was really hard on myself. I was very self critical, I had all these negative self thoughts. And I realized that the root of that is shame. This feeling that we're not good enough in some way. And also recognizing that's the truth. Not just me. Shame is this universal feeling that is perpetuated through our society in terms of scarcity and lack from our upbringing, from our educational system.

So I'm like, okay, it's no wonder that I've internalized some of these things, but now I actually have the opportunity to heal those parts of myself and start making some shifts. I used to very strongly believe I am not enough. And the first shift was like, what if. enough. I didn't necessarily fully 100 percent believe it,

Baily Hancock: it was a hypothesis.

Richard Lee-Thai: just like the what if. So that gave at least a possibility, and I feel like that opened the door to me just doing so much more of this self exploration. To realize I can, first of all, be kinder to myself, I can be more self compassionate. learning to celebrate my achievements, the effort that I put into things. And to say to these are, I feel like some things that are continually things I'm working on. Cause of course, negative self thoughts and self doubt will still come up, but I

Baily Hancock: We're still people after all.

Richard Lee-Thai: We're still people, but certainly coming across Brene Brown's work, and I've since read several more of her books, too kick started this journey for me.

Baily Hancock: Isn't that so amazing that sometimes all it takes is seeing that, seeing or reading that this is not unique to you, right? Or like you said, being given the language. I think that's what Brene has done for so many of us is just give us words to describe how we feel or what we thought was just the way things are and being able to then say, Oh, it's actually a choice.

And I too have struggled with perfectionism my entire life and being self critical and God, I, the older I get, the more I realize perfectionism, A, it's not achievable for a sustainable period of time. You might every now and then nail something, but at what cost and. It's not interesting. It's not interesting to other people.

And even though there are so many of us that strive for perfection, I know I don't even appreciate perfection in others. It's not admirable to me. It's a little bit annoying and frustrating. Smells like it's not real. So there's like a lack of trust there, even if it's not on a conscious level, because I know that they know that perfectionism is not actually a thing that any of us fully are in every area.

So it's almost like I would trust and connect more deeply with somebody if I saw that they were an imperfect person, just like me,

Richard Lee-Thai: yeah, I totally agree.

The Importance of Authenticity in Professional Settings

Richard Lee-Thai: That point you just made is very applicable to the professional speaking world. Because Yes, the audience might perceive or hear this bio, like this person has X, Y, Z achievements and, they're very successful. And it's important for that speaker to reveal that they haven't always been that way. They're human too, and they've had this journey of struggles, challenges, mentors, friends that have helped them along the way to get them to where they are.

Love the struggle pieces and suffering pieces because that's, it's how life is. It's not sunshine and rainbows all the time.

Baily Hancock: No, I got that so wrong for so many years. I've been speaking for a decade now, and it wasn't until this year that I worked with a speaking coach named Aleya Harris, who just wrote an amazing book. And her framework was literally about sharing the struggles, sharing the low points, sharing the time when everything changed.

And now all of the talks I give and the workshops I facilitate. Deeply leverage those points because that humanizes me to my audience. And even in my own framework, one of the frameworks I teach speakers and entrepreneurs and people that want to be thought leaders is called connection centered thought leadership.

And it's thought leadership. So you're still teaching people something you're still sharing your wisdom and you still have a call to action at the end, but the important piece in the middle is connection. So it's education plus connection equals inspired action. And that connection piece is more than just making people feel like they understand who you are as a person because you're sharing information about you and your life.

It's that resonance of, Oh, I have felt that too. And they don't have to have gone through the exact same experience that you share about, but everybody has felt shame. Everybody has felt disappointment. Everybody has felt fear and loneliness. And so I totally agree. And it's Interesting to think about how so many of us still think that we need to present this polished, perfect version of ourselves.

And you see it on LinkedIn constantly. Oh my God. The inauthenticity on LinkedIn is overwhelming. Cause I'm like, I know you're a cool person under that like facade. Show me that person because I feel like I can connect with that person. And then I'm more likely to listen to what it is that you're sharing with me.

Cause I believe you.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, definitely. It's, mic drop. You had so much wisdom packed into what you had just reflected back as well. Because, yeah, we're all human at the end of the day. The other, besides Brene Brown, there's lots of other people that impacted me.

The Role of Self-Compassion

Richard Lee-Thai: The other one is Kristen Neff. She's a researcher psychologist around self compassion. So she also has a TEDx talk and a great book on self compassion because she talks about that there's these three components. There's self kindness, common humanity, and mindfulness. So self kindness in the sense that instead of beating yourself up, could you actually be gentle with yourself and be empathetic?

Like to recognize that If a friend were going through what you were going through, how would you treat them? You probably wouldn't be yelling at them, you'd probably, be offer a listening ear, a shoulder to cry on, you'd be, empathetic. And yet we don't offer that to ourselves. So to direct that self kindness. The second component, common humanity, is what we've been exploring is not alone. it's just part of the common human experience or human condition that you're experiencing these things. So that can relieve the pressure that there's nothing wrong about you. You're just human.

Baily Hancock: You're a person.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah. And the last component of mindfulness, mindfulness over identification is how she describes it. It's to be able to sort through yes, you can have negative emotions or positive emotions, At some points, but to just recognize it objectively and not delve or be lost in the whole story and narrative of that. It's this is what I'm feeling right now, and you can let it go too. have to over identify with those narratives we tell ourselves, because sometimes we have those emotions, and then it gets tied to this narrative of I'm never going to be good enough, I'm not worthy in this world, I can't show my true self because people are going to judge me. Again, easier said than done, but it's like at least having this vocabulary or concepts to start with, I think really helps.

Baily Hancock: 100%. I'm literally listening to an episode of the, we can do hard things podcast with Kristin Neff.

Richard Lee-Thai: Oh,

Baily Hancock: I was listening before we got on this call. So that feels like

Richard Lee-Thai: to be.

Baily Hancock: exactly a universe thumbs up of yes. Tell people about her. It's so true. I think awareness of the thing, naming the thing, recognizing you are not alone in the thing.

Is everything. And I think that just speaks to this broader reason for why connection is so crucial in so many areas of our life, because it's not just having coffee with somebody or building even a lifelong friendship with somebody. It's the fact that when you connect and you feel connected with other people, you begin to realize how.

Not special. Each of us are in our neuroses and our hangups and our blockages and our belief systems. You start to realize that there are so many people out there that feel the same way that you do. So I think commiseration is one of the best things that can come from connection because it really does help make you feel like you're part of this bigger picture situation.

You're not. On this little Island all by yourself, we are all a bunch of silly little humans, just trying to figure things out and doing the best that we can every day. And so having people to do this life with and uncover these things about yourself with throughout your personal evolution is not to be understated.

Richard Lee-Thai: I love that term. Silly little humans.

Baily Hancock: Yeah.

Richard Lee-Thai: But yeah, I think this is the phrase from one of Bernie Brown's books too. I thought it was just me,

Baily Hancock: Yes.

Richard Lee-Thai: right? It's this feeling when it feels so empowering or healing to be validated. It's oh, other people go through this too. I thought it was just me, but that's not true. Because then you recognize, as you said, you're not You're special, but you're not special.

Baily Hancock: You're not unique in your struggles. Of

Richard Lee-Thai: You're not unique in your struggles, but you're still unique as a person in

Baily Hancock: course. We're all little snowflakes. Of course. Yeah. You look at the me too movement. It's literally in the name hashtag me too. Also me, I have gone through this thing too. You are not alone. I am not alone. There is strength in togetherness and numbers and being able to see your experience reflected in other people.

And I think that's just beautiful.

Richard Lee-Thai: There's a quote, it goes along the lines of trauma what you hold onto in the absence of an empathetic witness. And once you have that empathetic witness then you can let go of that. You realize, Oh, sees me. And hears me and is able to validate me and tell me that I'm not broken.

Baily Hancock: Yeah. I

Richard Lee-Thai: and then you can let go of that piece of or heal that part of trauma.

The Beauty of Imperfection

Richard Lee-Thai: There's there's a Japanese practice that really fascinates me too, it's called Kintsugi.

Baily Hancock: Love Kintsugi. Tell the people what it is.

Richard Lee-Thai: for listeners that don't know, imagine you have a broken bowl, it's broken down to all these different shards. And so what they will do is get this gold colored paste and glue it back together. And what I like about this, it shows that it's not a perfect bowl. There are those cracks, and yet there's beauty those cracks. There's beauty in that imperfection. That's us as humans too.

Baily Hancock: People I think naturally desire a bit of imperfection because it again, reflects back to you that it's okay for you to be imperfect as well. And in fact, that's the default you guys, like we are imperfect because how could we not be? If you really zoom out and think about big picture questions of life, why are we here?

I personally believe we're here to figure out why we're here. We're here to explore and discover and uncover and peel back and build upon. Like it's both an uncovering and a building upon, right? It's a becoming and an uncovering what you already were to begin with. And if you're striving for perfection and you're trying to do it all by yourself, A, I think you're missing the point and B, it's just an unattainable goal.

And there are too many of those already that we're up against. So you may as well just give yourself. a break and give yourself permission to show up as close to who you believe you really are as possible because to your point earlier that helps attract the right aligned people for who you are it's not you fitting into a mold trying to be a chameleon to whoever is in front of you because if you're doing that then The person they end up liking is not actually the person that's in front of them.

And that's a bait and switch anyway, which isn't nice to do. And so I know that it can feel hard. I know that it can feel really intimidating to be vulnerable and show up as yourself, but man, the connections you'll make when you do that are so much more likely to be deep and real and lasting connections than the inauthentic ones that you're just performing for.

Richard Lee-Thai: Wow. I've also learned over time that it's okay recognize that friends come and go.

Baily Hancock: Yes.

Richard Lee-Thai: that's also true. Yes, you can have a really deep, enriching connection with someone, but also circumstances, seasons of life can change, and that's okay too. You're constantly evolving as a person the people around you are constantly evolving and changing. Your authentic self right now might be different from five years from now and 10 years from now And that's also okay that the people around you will shift as you go through different chapters or seasons of your life

Baily Hancock: And that's also another reason for self connection, right? Unless you're staying current on who you are today, it's going to be really hard to make sure that the friendships and relationships you have are still applicable to the person that you've become.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Baily Hancock: Thank you so much, Richard. This was so helpful. I know that our listeners are going to get so much out of this. We'll be sure to link your book and your TEDx talk in the show notes. And anything else you want to share with our audience. I just appreciate your work so much. And it's so lovely to be connected to a fellow connection consultant. I'm a connection strategist. It's just, it's so nice to find my people. So thank you for being here.

Richard Lee-Thai: Yeah, thank you for hosting this and inviting me

Baily Hancock: Yeah. Thanks everybody.

Baily Hancock

http://bailyhancock.com/
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